Create a space to submit and to launch Java webstartable games

[gouessej]

Hi!

I saw for the first time a website that allows to submit Java games quite easily by filling a form some days ago:
http://www.randomthoughts.net/links/index.html

It would be fine to have a section allowing the users to find easily Java webstartable games even though some websites provide such a service for the following reasons:
- www.happypenguin.org has no moderator; when you post a Java game, many fanatics criticize not the game itself but the fact that you chose to use Java instead of C/C++/C#/Python/Lua/Lisp. EgonOlsen, some other members of Javagaming and me can confirm this. I have been insulted too... 
- when you submit games on many websites, they have very personal criteria to accept them. Some of them accept only flash games and shockwave games
- it is sometimes hard for a "normal" user to find the link to a game by looking at it in the "game showcase" section
- many game websites that provide Java games don't accept submission at all
- even existent game websites allowing to submit Java games don't allow to add a video to show his game
- it is possible to put a video, some screenshots and a link to his game in the "game showcase" section but it is not centralized, it would be better to have a search engine for games with some criteria, with a system that auto-detect your version of Java if any and compare it with the version required for the game

I precise "webstartable" because I think many users don't want to take more than a few seconds to understand how to launch a game. If you need to download a zip, unzip it somewhere, modify one file in you're under Unix Solaris / Linux to launch the JAR... a seven-year-old child may give up.

However, I'm satisfied by randomthoughts.net.

[Jackal von ÖRF]

Does anybody know if it would be possible to make Java games available through WildTangent Orb?

http://www.google.com/search?q=wildtangent+orb
http://www.wildgames.com/
http://www.wildtangent.com/
http://www.wildtangent.com/index.html?pageID=wildcoins

[gouessej]

Does anybody know if it would be possible to make Java games available through WildTangent Orb?

http://www.google.com/search?q=wildtangent+orb
http://www.wildgames.com/
http://www.wildtangent.com/
http://www.wildtangent.com/index.html?pageID=wildcoins

I have checked it. Only professional developers can put games on this website and these games seems not to use Java at all. It is possible to install a sort of "console" (I don't know the best translation in English, I'm French, sorry) that works only under Windows Vista 

Why are you interested in this website in particular? Would you like to sell your game?

[dishmoth]

It would be fine to have a section allowing the users to find easily Java webstartable [or applet?] games
[...]
- it is sometimes hard for a "normal" user to find the link to a game by looking at it in the "game showcase" section
[...]

Rather than an external website, could we maintain a list of Java games within these forums?  As you say, the "Games Showcase" section is about discussing and debugging games, and doesn't really work as a library of existing games.

For example, could we have a sticky thread in "Games Showcase" called "Games List" in which is each forum user may post one (at most) message that summarizes all of the Java games they have created?  The summary for each game should be limited to: Name, Link, Description (one-sentence), Date last updated, and Status (work-in-progress, alpha, beta, released, abandoned, etc.).  (Screenshots would be nice, but should be kept small.)  A user would of course need to be able to modify his or her own entry in the thread, and a moderator would need to ensure that the thread stays on topic.

What do people think?  Does this make sense technically, and would people contribute to the thread if it existed?

Simon

[Jackal von ÖRF]

Why are you interested in this website in particular? Would you like to sell your game?

I just happened to read an article which mentioned it. I'm not for or against that particular website.

What do people think?  Does this make sense technically, and would people contribute to the thread if it existed?

It would be better to have a wiki which everybody can edit. The problem with forum-based lists is that either the list is in random order or somebody will have lots of work in updating the first post in the thread. The best option would be a fully featured website with categories, search, ratings, screenshots etc.

[gouessej]

I just happened to read an article which mentioned it. I'm not for or against that particular website.

It would be better to have a wiki which everybody can edit. The problem with forum-based lists is that either the list is in random order or somebody will have lots of work in updating the first post in the thread. The best option would be a fully featured website with categories, search, ratings, screenshots etc.

http://www.randomthoughts.net allows is a fully featured website with categories, search, ratings, comments and screenshots. I have added at least 30 games on this. I encourage you to contribute. I precise that it is not my website but I find it really fine. I agree with you about the difficulty of maintaining such a game list.

[gouessej]

Hi!

As I think that Java games are not known enough under Linux, I think that I will add some of them on all the websites (at least 20) speaking about TUER if it is possible. I did it for Bloodridge as it is an excellent game. I will begin by adding the games that are already on http://www.randomthoughts.net. If you're interested, let me know.

Creating a user-friendly space to submit Java games here is still important on my view as I think the creators of the website I have quoted above underestimate a little bit the other games, watch the notes...

[blahblahblahh]

Rather than an external website, could we maintain a list of Java games within these forums?  As you say, the "Games Showcase" section is about discussing and debugging games, and doesn't really work as a library of existing games.

Yikes. I did this about 4 years ago, and it was popular, so then I ended up registering a domain, and making a full automatic-webstart-system with free hosting for everyone's games. Plus hosting and webstarting for libraries, and automatic profiles for everyone, download stats for each game, etc. There was even a section for hosting source code, IIRC.

And then I got too busy to maintain it, and the domain expired last year. I didn't do anything about it because several different people here had said they were working on their own bigger, better, versions - and they clearly had more time to look after it than I did .

FWIW, having done this once before and made a lot of decisions, both good and bad, and had some great successes and some great failures, if there were enough interest I'd be happy to do it again. Leaner and meaner this time, and preferably as more of a group / open-source project.

[gouessej]

Yikes. I did this about 4 years ago, and it was popular, so then I ended up registering a domain, and making a full automatic-webstart-system with free hosting for everyone's games. Plus hosting and webstarting for libraries, and automatic profiles for everyone, download stats for each game, etc. There was even a section for hosting source code, IIRC.

And then I got too busy to maintain it, and the domain expired last year. I didn't do anything about it because several different people here had said they were working on their own bigger, better, versions - and they clearly had more time to look after it than I did .

FWIW, having done this once before and made a lot of decisions, both good and bad, and had some great successes and some great failures, if there were enough interest I'd be happy to do it again. Leaner and meaner this time, and preferably as more of a group / open-source project.

Thank you for your interest and your precise answer. I don't imagine to do this kind of things alone. If some people here are interested too, we might start something small.

[dishmoth]

Yikes. I did this about 4 years ago, and it was popular, so then I ended up registering a domain, and making a full automatic-webstart-system with free hosting for everyone's games.

Yes, and I seemed to be one of the few people uploading games to it.

It would be great to have a (developer-based) website with a comprehensive library of Java games, etc., etc., but while people talk about it a lot, any time someone creates such a thing it always seems to fall into disrepair pretty quickly, or for some reason only a small number of people add their games to it.

That's why I was wondering whether making a crude, simple games list within these forums (e.g., a sticky thread) might not be more effective in practice.  At least until a proper website becomes established.

Simon

[gouessej]

Yes, and I seemed to be one of the few people uploading games to it.

It would be great to have a (developer-based) website with a comprehensive library of Java games, etc., etc., but while people talk about it a lot, any time someone creates such a thing it always seems to fall into disrepair pretty quickly, or for some reason only a small number of people add their games to it.

That's why I was wondering whether making a crude, simple games list within these forums (e.g., a sticky thread) might not be more effective in practice.  At least until a proper website becomes established.

Simon

Did you add your games on http://www.randomthoughts.net? I use this website until we get a better one.

[dishmoth]

Did you add your games on http://www.randomthoughts.net?

It's on my to-do list.  (I need to have a proper look at what sort of games they're linking to.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for the worst games on the site. )
Simon

[gouessej]

Good morning

As I'm fed up with Random Thoughts because we have to pay to be allowed to rate any game (only premium members can rate a game), I think I will have to find another solution, maybe reuse one of my old website to put at least a small list of Java games at first. Can someone host this kind of project without ad?

I suggest to add a section called "Java game tome" on the website I use for TUER. I've no other solution now. What do you think about it?

[Demonpants]

I can PHP and MySQL, so I'd be up for helping to make this site.

[kingaschi]

I am willing to lend a hand too. 

I agree with Demonpants - PHP and MySQL are probably good options. Easy to develop and deploy.

In order to make it last, we should definitely work together?

[Demonpants]

I think that's a good call. It also minimizes the work we need to do.

[gouessej]

Ok for PHP and MySQL. As a first step, when I am less tired, I will write the submission system.

[kingaschi]

We should probably use SVN or so to work together? I can set it up and send login information for anyone interested to participate!?

[gouessej]

Good idea for SVN.

I have a problem with my host, MySQL doesn't work anymore

[Demonpants]

Yeah, SVN sounds great. Let me know when you've got details for it.

So if gouessej is working on the submission system, I suppose I could work on a rating system and a hit tracker. That way we can have "most popular games" "highest rated games" etc.

[kingaschi]

Great 

@Demonpants & gouessej: I just spammed you guys with the details on how to access SVN! Let me know if you run into problems!

I guess so far there are 3 of us. I can add others?

[blahblahblahh]

how is it going, guys?

If you're having problems with servers, I have a very big fat dedicated server which I can run anything on.

[Demonpants]

Unfortunately, I've been very busy finishing my college experience. I've got job applications and presentations falling out of all my orifices. 

I should be able to get some work done on this Tuesday or Wednesday.

[gouessej]

That's ok. I've written the first page, only a static version. I will automatize all this... Please send me an email if you have a game to add while the submission system is not ready.

[gouessej]

how is it going, guys?

If you're having problems with servers, I have a very big fat dedicated server which I can run anything on.

Fine, very fine. 58 games are on the website. I temporarily put this on the same website than TUER only for my tests. The submission system works fine!! I'm waiting for kingaschi, I would like to know if my temporary website will keep the definitive location in order to make some noise to allow people to know it.

[gouessej]

The Java(tm) Game Tome is being filled now 

If your game is not added Sunday, do it!

[TheAnalogKid]

Wow, nice site! 

It's really cool to have a central point where we have the games made by the JGO members. I think it's really useful. Thanks!

[gouessej]

Wow, nice site! 

It's really cool to have a central point where we have the games made by the JGO members. I think it's really useful. Thanks!

Kevglass doesn't think so:

[17:14:52] <kevglass> www.javagametome.com
[17:16:07] <Dragonene> ?
[17:23:43] <kevglass> wierd.
[17:25:22] *** Don____ has joined #lwjgl
[17:27:46] <Don____> auto join seems to work, for me at least...
[17:27:49] <Don____> anyone wanna try it?
[17:27:50] <Don____> http://multitris.swapgeek.com/multitris.php
[17:28:17] * kappaOne pulls eyes out with a blunt spoon after looking at that website
[17:29:15] <Don____> drag is working on a new design
[17:33:50] <Dragonene_> doesn't work for me in IE
[17:37:11] <kevglass> that game tome thing is the other thing that tuer chap is workiing on

In french, "chap" means "gerçure". It seems to be an insult. I see that some members are really unpolite. The Java(tm) Game Tome is not MY website, it is our website. kingashi and demonpants work on it too and I suggest everyone to use it. I have spent some weeks to make it work with the help of my "partners", I'm disappointed by the behavior of some members of this website, really.

[CaptainJester]

[17:37:11] <kevglass> that game tome thing is the other thing that tuer chap is workiing on

In french, "chap" means "gerçure". It seems to be an insult. I see that some members are really unpolite. The Java(tm) Game Tome is not MY website, it is our website. kingashi and demonpants work on it too and I suggest everyone to use it. I have spent some weeks to make it work with the help of my "partners", I'm disappointed by the behavior of some members of this website, really.

It is better to ask than to assume.  Chap may mean different thing to different people.  Since kevglass is from the UK, chap translates guy in North America which just translates to "personne" in French.  "that game tome thing is the other thing that tuer guy is working on"  which means he was on chat and forgot your screen name.  If Kev had a problem with what you were doing he would tell you in a reply to your post not go behind your back and try to dissuade people from using it.

[kevglass]

Actually, I wouldn't, chances are I'd keep my mouth shut unless talking to people I knew well. For the record, I think the site idea (a central list of Java games) is very good but the actual page is possible the most ugly thing I'd ever seen. Some of us here complained about how bad Java Games Factory looked when it was doing the rounds - but compared to this it was a thing of beauty.

In the UK "chap" is the same "bloke", or "dude" or "man" so it wasn't an insult. However, if I wanted to insult you I'd have used something more like "attention seeking whiner with a chip on his shoulder the size of Africa" but it's not as snappy.

You obviously have a problem with me either because you don't like how I post, or that I dared to disagree with you, fine. I not fond of your attitude and style of posting either but maybe we could stop troubling the general public with it, yeah? The real shame is the TUER code is actually quite good (even the end game isn't to my tastes) and it's less likely to get the attention it deserves if people are focused on this junk.

Kev